Lately, I’ve seen many references to the Pfitz plan while reading about blogs. I got the Advanced Marathoning book to see what all the fuss was about and my first reaction was “Good God. What the hell is wrong is with these people?” My next reaction was “Well they run marathons three times as fast as I do. Maybe there is something to this.” Okay, but seriously folks – 70 + miles per week. The most I’ve ever done is 40 and that was at the peak of monster month while marathon training – and that nearly killed me. I’m considering giving this Pfitz plan a try, which may take thirty years or so of building base mileage.
What makes an “Advanced Marathoner” advanced? Number of marathons? Speed? Lack of back fat? Genetics? What about the junk miles I keep reading about? Should I even worry about those?
Other than pfitzing about things, this weekend was uneventful in Runner Susan World. Saturday was an easy four-mile, Sunday was an easy five-mile run. Monday was a recovery day and today was bleacher day again. I doubled last Thursday’s bleacher session and ran a half of a mile today. I was hoping to run another half mile on the track but my legs were deliciously spent by the time I was finished. I rotated push-ups, triceps dips and abs at the end of each row ending up with 100 of each. I’m liking this intense calorie-burning workout! It better show me the money this week. Or Tanita suffers.
I found a new feature on my food log – it shows my weekly caloric breakdown. My undying love of sugar. And fat. And cake. But not meat. And plenty of cake. And not enough running.
I’ve been following Julie Berg’s food log for a while and my goal it to eventually eat like her. I figure if we can wear the same clothes, we can eat the same food. Except her clothes are a lot smaller. And so are her food portions. Which makes complete sense to me.
I wanna get on the Pfitz plan too! But I’m starting out with 10 miles a week. That puts me in the 70+ miles per week thingee in about 80 years 🙂
good job on the bleachers! lets run them again on thursday.
I think the mileage thing is definitely a personal thing. Some people handle 70+ easy. My issue with the really high mileage is that everyone I know doing it can run easy and still get in their long runs faster than if I run them hard. In order to get in all those miles you have to go easy, and for those of us that are mere mortals that means a lot more time spent running.
I will let you know how I adjust to the higher mileage this fall when I start boosting numbers for JFK.
I love the back fat comments. That has become one of my new obsessions too.
The people that I’ve talked to always seem to say mileage, mileage, mileage. I agree with the last commenter, that when your pace is slower, in order to run higher miles means a lot more time.
Cool food log deal. I need one of those pretty badly, as you’d never guess I’m a runner by my diet. 🙂
Keep on Truckin Susan! And thanks for stopping by my blog with your kind comment. 🙂
Sam
do you like to swim? having been a runner, and a cyclist, the most satisfying results from me beyond eating a more ‘food as fuel’ diet is swimming…
it’s a love hate relationship me and the swim.
but, it keeps that perpetually unhappy bitch tanita happier…
I hate the name of that book, love the book but hate the name. I feel stupid reading anything that has advanced in the title. I feel like wrapping it in a grocery bag like I used to do to my school books to keep them from getting damaged.
argh! junk miles?! please please please don’t tell me these are miles run that don’t “count”!
Sometimes what works for you may not work for the next guy. Use the book as a guide – not as the bible to running. Nice job on the bleachers!
Hey Susan-
There are three plans in there : max at 55 miles, max at 55-70 miles and then max at 70+ miles. So if you wanted to try to follow his plan just do the max at 55, this wouldn’t be as tough as the 70+ (or completly insane! 🙂 )
It’s a good plan although more difficult that other plans i agree. I think an “advanced marathoner” is just one that wants to improve. One that wants to take more control over their training….at least that’s what I’m telling myself as I am as far from experienced as one could get!
70 miles a week would take me well over 12 hours to accomplish. That’s at least 2 hours a day running. When would I swim? When would I bike? No thanks. In fact, when this marathon is over (that would be Sunday afternoon – yeah!) I am really looking forward to doing more swimming and more biking.
My personal quote is ‘built for comfort, not for speed’ and that’s just the way it is.
I should have figured that if I was gone for a week, you’d have new header when I came back….
I have to say, the high-mileage idea really does produce results if your body can handle the training. The trick is to build up to it very slowly – like over several months (even years) instead of weeks. If you just try jumping right into 70-mile weeks, you’ll end up injured for sure.
mmmmm, cake.
Trying it will be the only way for you to find out what you can do. I bet once you’d never believe what you’ve accomplish until now. Just look at those calories, you are doing great!!
Lack of back fat??? Holy crap!!! I disturbed the entire office laughing when I read that and almost fell out of my desk. You need a disclaimer at the top of some of these posts: Do not read at work, could get you fired!!!
Hi Susan … no need to get so hung up on the mileage. Focus more on time. I have friends putting in 100 miles/week; but they are running them at a 6:45/pace or faster. They cover a lot of distance in a short period of time. Your trick is to train yourself to stay on your feet comfortably for the 4+ hours needed to complete 26.2 miles. You don’t need to be running 70 miles week to accomplish that.
Fortunately, you’re a woman and won’t get hung up in the “my mileage is bigger than your mileage” arguement so many of us males get into. Stick with what is comfortable for you and slowly build up the time on your feet. Who knows, you may be looking back 4 months from now wondering how you ever got by on less than 40 miles a week.
Okay, I’ve been reading your blog for a while. In secret, ya know.
I’ve heard about this plan too, but that seems like so much running. I think I hit 200 miles one month during marathon training. Like you, I can’t imagine 70 mile weeks. ugh…
There wouldn’t be time left for cake, or ice cream, or pie.
pfitz can go pfu…nevermind…that would be RUDE! how is it possible that you did all that in 22 minutes????
rock on runner susan.
I think you’re on track to accomplish great things. You’ve got spirit and determination and may very well log 70 mile weeks before you know it. Take your time.
I know what you are saying about pfitz. I was reading his cross training book and the plan is a 7 day a week plan don’t these people know the importance of rest!
Whew, 70 miles per week, I’m getting tired just thinking about that! I love your food log…much more interesting than those little paper ones they give you at Weight Watchers!
Geez, I guess I need to defend myself a bit. I don’t consider myself anywhere near an extremely advanced runner, but I suppose I would be an advanced marathoner. My body can handle the mileage and I think that a lot of people can handle this type of mileage if they work up to it over the years.
I live a life full of responsibilities just like everyone else and choose to cut out sleep rather than cutting back on my running. If a guy with 4 kids in a masters program with a wife who goes to work as soon as I come home can run 70+ miles a week then anybody can if they choose to do so. It’s a lifestyle choice and you have to be committed to it, but it is definitely not necessarry. Pfitz also has a plan that maxes out at 55 miles, which is a bit more human.
I think most people would find that if they ran more miles the running will become easier for them and they will get faster without any speed work. You can’t run all the miles at 100% effort though. The rest is an active rest rather than a complete day off. I choose to take a day off here and there rather than running 7 days a week. It’s a personal choice for me since I like having a day off. Alright I never knew I would be such an advocate of high mileage, but just because a person runs a lot of mileage does not make him/her a freak of nature. The human body can withstand a lot of pounding. Most people that know me would say that I am only mildly demented.
I bet you weren’t expecting this type of response.
Gosh, 70 mile weeks… in relative terms, do the triathletes do that much training?
Susan, the first Pfitz plan maxes out at 55 miles, and that mileage is only reached once. It really is doable, I managed to follow most of it last year from very little mileage previously.
And no, Nicole, it’s not a 7 day plan. The 55 mile plan is 5 days per week, if I remeber correctly, and he always underlines the importance of running the recovery runs at very easy pace.
Plus, you’ll most likely notice the pounds dropping off you if you follow that plan – I know, because it happened to me.
i bet pfitz is crap in bed.
i have found that cutting carbs down (not out) has helped me and my belly. i think i’m going to do an “anything is okay on saturday” diet, knowing that i just can’t chow down on anything having read “_fast food nation_. so i know that my anything is safe. the hard part is all the food at work. as i work in govt there are so many “suck up to the minister/commonwealth” left over treats.
but i tell you, when i reach 70 and if i’m widowed, i’m porking out! why die a silly death of nothing?!?! i wanna die a big momma!
i’ve also decided that when i am next in dallath, i’m going to find you and surprise you in a very stalker with the promise of margs style.
There are other plans in the “Advanced Marathoning” book. I personally follow the 12/55 plan–12 weeks, maxing out at 55 miles. I have also altered the plan a little to fit my schedule and to fit my physical limitations (like the fact I’ve had two stress fractures). And I would say the only base you need is the ability to comfortably run 30 miles a week before the plan starts. From everyone I know who has followed it, including myself, it works!
I am struggling with that exact same thing. I’m already using Hal for Chicago. But I am thinking that in order to acheive better results Pfitz may be the way to go. But the more I research, the more opinions I am finding. AGH!! Which one to follow…which one to follow! Good Luck!
Like all plans they vary for what works for each individual. I typically max out around 65 miles when training for the ugly marathon but more normally run 45- 50 mile weeks for everything else. You just need to find what works for you and don’t get caught up in the mileage of others.
I have two friends that run routinely 100 miles. They have no life either!
that workout sounds killer! I may have to try that at our local track, they have bleachers there (legs strong, rest of body is flabby!)
I know a couple guys who do the Pfitz. The main difference between their plan and the ‘regular’ from what I’ve talked to them about is don’t do speedwork and run more miles … like 11 on a Wednesday night. On the negative side I have heard there is a greater chance of injury. These guys are what I would call advanced marathoner, they have done boston a number of time. They could show up at the start of a marathon any time, without training specifically for it and do what I consider amazing.
I am with you on portion size … I need to buy smaller bowls!
Susan, as others have stated, there’s also a 55 mpw schedule. Keep in mind that 55 is the max, not the norm.
55 might still be too much at this point. Why don’t you try reaching 40 again and see how it compares to the first time you ran it? Hopefully it won’t “nearly kill you” this time.
Mileage is individual in a sport where you get out of it what you put into it. RR, is weighing Hal and Pfitz and getting different answers. When that happens, I tend to side with the group that has the faster runners.
And sure Kurt’s 2 buddies may have “no life” but I bet they’re faster than most runners – or at least closer to their potential.
What do you use to track your food? Is it an online tool?
My Tanita sucked so i turfed it!
Besides will weighing yourself actually change your weight?No so measure less often and take the pressure off yourself.
As for advanced marathoning its about time on your feet ie.Advanced plans have you running further therefore longer time on your feet (as a non elite) exposing you to greater risk of injury.
You don’t need to double triple or whatever your mileage the return for effort just won’t be there for YOU.
Keep doing what you are doing, tweaking it a little as you go along.Most importantly don’t get hurt and you will be on a constant improvement cycle!
R2B
Susan,
I want to come and run bleachers with you. I will call you and plan a time. In regards to the food thing. It stinks that we both have to be so accountable. Keep up the logging it keeps you on track. Measure, measure, measure. I haven’t missed a boot camp this summer and my weight on my Tanita is still the same, but my body fat as gone down another 4%. Stay focused on this! You will feel so much better if you are eating well! Eating well does contain a piece of cheese cake every now and then, too. Talk soon.
Susan…I beg you to try this plan which was featured in runners world. It involves only 3 days of running per week…..giving you rest….and the ability to cross train on ‘rest’ days.
http://www.furman.edu/FIRST/1.htm
I have done 7 marathons. My best was in 1997 and was 3:58. After this training program, I ran a 3:38….a PR by 20 minutes! In training for it, I also set PR’s in the 30K, half marathon, 10K and 5K.
Every run you do has a point….in terms of distance and pace. I can’t tell you how many times in the past I went out and ran 6 miles because I felt like I was ‘supposed to.’ Looking back…those were junk miles. The biggest change for me was doing the track work every week.
This plan takes a bit of a leap of faith…but I am telling you it works!!!! In the runners world article, 25 people did this plan and I think 21 of the 25 did PR’s. That’s huge.
wow, 1500 calories does not seem like a lot or enough for such an active person. i dig pie charts!! later.
Of course I have to agree with Rob, as we DO run 70+ mile weeks. It is a matter of organization and focus. Do I want to sleep until 6 or do I want to be able to train for the race. I choose training, every time! As a mom of two boys, wife and yes, I work out of the home, I sit on the town board, I am active in the boys sports, running fits. I make sure it fits. You will too. Work up your miles slowly at first; you know..add on to your long run each week. Maybe a few 2x a day. I find during the winter months I need to run 2x a day to get my mileage up to 70-90 miles a week.
As for the food, I struggle each and every day, Susan. I don’t have it all figured out, that is for sure. I am just glad to have found finally found other runners that are not string poles too. I don’t think I will ever be able to eat pasta, bagels and sandwiches unless during a 100 mile race. That is just the way it is.
Keep plugging along! After a while it gets SO much easier!!
Yikes! 70 miles?
Give me a whole month and I could run ’em…
Hey Susan, just glancing at your food intake here and right off the bat I’m thinking it’s too little? I’m not sure of your age/wt/ht though, so I may be wrong, but 1600 just seems low for a runner. Adding some calories might help? But you know your body best. Just thoughts. 🙂
Oh yeah, I forgot to comment on this sentence;
“Saturday was an easy four-mile, Sunday was an easy five-mile run. Monday was a recovery day…”
If Saturday was an easy day and Sunday was an easy day, why did you need a recovery day on Monday? These are the things you can change to improve your running.
If we lived closer we would definitely be working out together!
I seem to be somewhat in the minority, but I honestly don’t subscribe to the more miles=better philosophy. I got a BQ on less than 40mpw, and my mum ran a 3:09 London with a maximum of 50 (and that was only during her two peak weeks).
I really think people substitute miles for SMARTS. “If I just keep adding miles, I wont have to really THINK about what I’m doing.”
You have to be really smart about how you train and how you run a race. Like the mental aspect is often totally neglected.
anyhoo, that’s my two cents. keep the posts coming Susan – you are by far the most entertaining running blogger in the blogosphere.
HELP NEED ADVICE! My running in the summer SUCKS. My legs feel fine I just can’t breath. This morning I only made it 1/2 mile then had to walk…etc…when can I do to make breathing easier for me in the summer? I have no problem in the winter and I love running outside even when it is below 0! This summer crap is SUCKING…any advice?
Wow, its been a while since I saw your site. Cool to run into it again. Anyway, I have to say that the best, most relaxed I’ve ever felt while running was when I was doing regular 45-50 mile weeks training for NYC last year. It was hard at first, but once I got into the distance rhythm, everything just worked. My schedule:
Monday – 8-10 speed or hillwork (3-5 of that is warmup/cooldown)
Tuesday – 7 recovery
Wednesday – 7-9 speed
Thursday – 7 recovery
Friday – rest
Saturday – 16-22 long
Sunday – rest
Yeah, I know, but you really did get used to it. Or at least I did.